Every time I ban a cheater, I get stuck in an email conversation where they either

a) lie and say they didn't cheat.
b) acknowledge they cheated but want a second chance.

I used to give second chances, but the rate of re-offense was so high I have stopped doing so. For what it's worth, I already have ideas on how to handle this, but I'd like to get your opinions as well. Keep in mind that in the case of permanent ban, it is hard to enforce as people can make multis.

Vote and discuss.

Permanent ban should be enough for real cheaters....

I voted for score reset, disable submission, but leave access. Perhaps it would be wise to block creation from their IP/MAC address in addition to that.

Well I don't understand how they could say they didn't cheat, I mean how do you accidentally cheat??

-.-

lol last option is actually good

here's the catch
if you do find a cheater in which case 100% sure he has cheated, it's usually nice to give a second chance, but it's a sure way to abuse such
if i say perma-ban, then multiing would be their action. As for the third option I believe they'll just multi again.
What's the use of cheating to get a high score if you can't show it to anyone?
I propose a 4th option of both Perma-ban and IP ban or something like that. Point is we have to find a way around the multi loophole.



*EDIT: voted for permaban though, but we still need to find a way around the multi problem

I used to think if they it they cheated and apologized they should be given a second chance, but I wont even say that these days.

Cheating isn't a gray area, the person doing it obviously knows they are breaking the rules. If they choose to cheat and ruin the fun of everyone else playing, I see no reason to give them another chance or let them stay in the community . So voting for permanent ban.

Multi-s do add a very big problem but hopefully a more advanced system can be put in place in the future to counter that...(not saying I have any good ideas for that though)

Osu Tatakae Ouendan wrote: 97v

both Perma-ban and IP ban or something like that

Won't work - proxy.

I voted perm ban, by the way. No mercy for sandrakers.

.

Soly wrote: 1z3ce

Permanent banana. No exceptions.

permanent ban, we cant do anything against re-ing anyway

MAC ban is enough I think, people will have to buy a whole new PC to continue cheating, which is very fund-draining, and they won't be brave to cheat anymore. \o/

(Voted for permanent ban)

IP ban is too harsh,I don't like it whenever it may affect the others just because of one's action.I voted for permanent ban.

Jalatiphra wrote: 5p554d

permanent ban, we cant do anything against re-ing anyway

Those who kept re-ing will surely get tired of it and stop because it is not worth their time.Seriously unless that guy is a NEET and have too much free time...

I'd say permaban, but from what i saw, they -always- make a second acc (and keep doing the same thing). So it's better reset scores, imo.

But if you disable submission it will be the same as banning the acc - they'll make another.

Bittersweet wrote: 4cd6i

I'd say permaban, but from what i saw, they -always- make a second acc (and keep doing the same thing). So it's better reset scores, imo.

But if you disable submission it will be the same as banning the acc - they'll make another.

Yeah. That was why I voted for resetting the score. I'm actually more for the permaban but I'm pretty sure it is useless.

Soly wrote: 1z3ce

Permanent banana. No exceptions.

Voted "Score reset, disable submission, but leave access".

While you can always multi-, it looks different after permanent ban and disable .
- after permaban it looks like cheater is so smart that he fooled protection system (e-pen gained, cheater be hatin' more)
- disable can't be byed so new looks like cheater can't beat developers he/she hates so much (no e-pen gained)

And disabled data can be utilized in the future I guess (?).

When I am talking " access", I mean letting the to chat/forums. We still keep access to the and have all relevant data, so it wouldn't change how easy it is to track people.

Permaban =).

Getting rid of the cheating should be a given but then it is hard to track the if you do give a 2nd chance.
I'd go with the 2nd choice but maybe instead wipe score and give them one more chance to play while submitting scores.
But for now I'd stick with giving a 2nd chance with a new possibly link that there old was such and such if possible?

Wipe their score and disable their submission, but let them keep the . I am aware they can still create a new and start from scratch just as if we banned them altogether, but on principle I'd prefer to punish the offense itself, rather than the offender.

That message (it's not you we don't like, it's what you did) will probably be lost on most cheaters though. Oh well.

i think people who cheated on secundary s should also have second chances..

so allow all the multis and all the cheaters? :p

peppy wrote: 115z70

so allow all the multis and all the cheaters? :p

Works for me :p
/runs

On a more serious note I think perma-ban is the best option, it may not be foolproof but it shows that we actually care

lunah also cheated and made a multi linked to the old one, why isn't this option available to everyone?

Second chance. Thats your 453th , asdasdasd654456

I was always thinking that preventing cheating is more important and useful than ways to ban them
Well, anyway. I voted for permaban

Bittersweet wrote: 4cd6i

Second chance. Thats your 453th , asdasdasd654456

im talking acount getting permanent banned for secundary cheating. No second chances? second chances are only to main cheaters right? that's so fair..

Option 3:
Also all of their forum posts, their complete profile and all of the cheaters beatmaps are deleted. They should also be marked in both the online list in game and their profile as a cheater so everyone will see it, and it should be so noticeable that you can not miss it. Also they should be silenced forever in any chat room and private messages. That is a very good punishment for cheaters, just let them be online and enjoy their shamefull existance and let them at least play without taking part in the community ever again in any way. This should also be applied for any other they had before they got banned and also every new one they will create. And they should never again be able to post on the forums! Or make a subforum where only cheaters are allowed to post and let them cry with each other for the rest of their life

asdasdasd654456 wrote: z5i2s

Bittersweet wrote: 4cd6i

Second chance. Thats your 453th , asdasdasd654456

im talking acount getting permanent banned for secundary cheating. No second chances? second chances are only to main cheaters right? that's so fair..

Hm, i don't think so. I recall you getting banned and then getting back with your original . That was your second chance. If you kept cheating after that you're just stupid and should get permabans in every acc.

Bittersweet wrote: 4cd6i

Hm, i don't think so. I recall you getting banned and then getting back with your original . That was your second chance. If you kept cheating after that you're just stupid and should get permabans in every acc.

my first ban wasn't even fair.. some player called nautic started trolling around and then i got banned. i never got a second chance for cheating

Guys, please keep this thread on topic.

Ban them all. They destroy game's atmosphere so badly...

Problem: cheaters submit scores that they do not deserve.
Solution: prevent them from submitting new scores.

This lets them keep their old . If you have a good way of tracking multi s, you can use that information to then ban new s. Keep in mind that anyone who picks up the game and is immediately awesome at it is either a multi-er or cheating. You can lump multi-s into "cheating".

you can't stop someone smart from making a 2nd and making no reference to their previous . I'm also pretty sure nobody has ever done this before.

asdasdasd654456 wrote: z5i2s

i never got a second chance for cheating

so you're gonna cheat again? wat

Voted for option 1:

People who once cheated are highly likely to cheat again, giving a second chance as you said peppy, may lead to that who wasted your time lying to you/insisting for a second chance making you waste your time again (or you could even say that guy is insulting you).

Then again, a permanent ban makes you lose your "public ID" and your friend list. To be honest if I ever got banned what I'd suffer the most isn't the lost of my stats/score, but the fact I got to start out again as a random not being able to say publicly who I am. Not having a second chance to play even if some day I feel like getting some top scores and stuff, since I know the moment anyone from the staff ends up knowing who I really am I gonna lose them.

Option 2:

Lol, this is basically "you can go cheat do whatever you want, you gonna get 999 chances if you say you're sorry!". The worst out of those 3.

Option 3:

Sounds cool, but I still prefer 3 since it's kind of the same than this but harsher. On this idea you basically "ban him" from the game but the guy can still post and stuff, if he ever wanna play he can do a multi and that's all...

what? no. i want a second chance because i cheated on other s and my main it's completely legit. cheating again is not my target

Wishy22 wrote: 691a5u

Option 3:

Sounds cool, but I still prefer 3 since it's kind of the same than this but harsher. On this idea you basically "ban him" from the game but the guy can still post and stuff, if he ever wanna play he can do a multi and that's all...

If I understand this correctly, they can still play the game as well. They just no longer play the game with any form of online recognition. When osu dies, everyone will be on option 3.

asdasdasd654456 wrote: z5i2s

what? no. i want a second chance because i cheated on other s and my main it's completely legit. cheating again is not my target

The point is that you're not allowed to cheat on any .

He shouldn't even be allowed to have multis imo.

y but lunah can have a new one right?

ztrot wrote: x6k62

I'd go with the 2nd choice but maybe instead wipe score and give them one more chance to play while submitting scores.
But for now I'd stick with giving a 2nd chance with a new possibly link that there old was such and such if possible?

My thoughts exactly o:

@ziin

It's kind of the same thing, if that guy ever wants to play online again all he has to do is make another ... and even if you can "pursue him" using his IP or anything, you still can't prove it's really him player, and then again if he changes his IP and then starts using another you can prove nothing.

The main issue are MULTI S, that problem comes from the fact that s are worth pretty much NOTHING. Even if you get yourself banned all you got to do is make another and that's it, obviously cheaters don't really care about getting banned/losing their scores (since they cheated them lol). I think this would be solved with some cool ladder system/good ranking system where rank actually means something.

voted perma-ban TAKE NO PRISONERS!

More importantly, is there really no way to prevent multis? :/

Wishy22 wrote: 691a5u

@ziin

It's kind of the same thing, if that guy ever wants to play online again all he has to do is make another ... and even if you can "pursue him" using his IP or anything, you still can't prove it's really him player, and then again if he changes his IP and then starts using another you can prove nothing.

The main issue are MULTI S, that problem comes from the fact that s are worth pretty much NOTHING. Even if you get yourself banned all you got to do is make another and that's it, obviously cheaters don't really care about getting banned/losing their scores (since they cheated them lol). I think this would be solved with some cool ladder system/good ranking system where rank actually means something.

Player A's 1 is banned.
Player A gets new IP.
Player A makes new 2, never logs onto banned 1.
No way to match 2 with 1.

Player A's 1 gets suspended.
Player A gets new IP.
Player A makes new 2, occasionally logs onto suspended 1 with new IP.
We now have a link between new 2 and suspended 1, and can act appropriately. Furthermore, 2 will likely be SSing insane songs on day 1, which is not humanly possible. Banning new s should not be a difficult process, so long as there is an explanation as to why the was banned (in this case, the player is way too good to be new).

IP matching is used to find multi s on another forum I moderate, and is not foolproof (siblings on same IP, ISP re-uses old IP). By using such a system as well as comparing relative skill levels of the two s, it should be a simple (though tedious) process to determine multi-s.

The other problem is that a lot of the high profile cheaters didn't really cheat their way up to being that good, they did it in order to see if they could get away with it/get banned because they don't like the community anymore.

asdasdasd654456 wrote: z5i2s

what? no. i want a second chance because i cheated on other s and my main it's completely legit. cheating again is not my target

also, this person's should just be straight up banned right now, no questions asked.

Voted option 3 since scores and community are, to me, unrelated.

vote 1 cuz people can go to top of leaderboards not making osu a game anymore

If nothing else, then a score reset would probably be the safest option. Even better, this should be undoable, in case it turns out that the player wasn't cheating. If a player cheats, then a simple score reset would enable them to stay in touch with the community.

well that defeats the point its for cheaters
and hackers can hack u via internet do u want that huh do u want them to steal ur info and all that?

halo398: please use the edit button instead of posting again in a row, specially when you add something just like a minute after