I think a combination of option 3 and having a new icon to indicate a map is only in the qualified state ingame would be the ideal solution, personally. I'm still surprised there's no ingame distinction between Qualified and Ranked, and that is probably the source of a good deal of drama.

qwr wrote: 43mg

The third option is actually ambiguous - it doesn't specify [in qualification] if pp rewarding will be delayed or not considered at all

The big problem is if you actually have to play the map again and you can't beat your score (a Tie for example doesn't overwrite it) You're basically screwed forever without earning PP. I don't see how it's possible for the third option to be treated in that manner. It definitely means you'll earn your PP once it moves to ranked. If this was the case, I'd rather have all scores wiped upon ranking.

peppy wrote: 115z70

Lina Sintyadewi wrote: 2i6d6j

If the maps got DQ, don't wipe that scores because some player don't like to retry/play same map.

I think you're missing the point. The maps CHANGE after getting disqualified, which makes any scores set incorrect.

Like monstrata mentioned, not all beatmaps change after disqualifications or every map that is included in the mapset does.
As much as the third option is the most ideal option for this poll, I would say there should be a 4th option of making every scoreboard of every map in a mapset to not get deleted as long as the actual map didn't change during the time the mapset got disqualified.
Some diqualifications are not all about the actual map but rather the meta data or just one map out of a full mapset, then, when a mapset gets disqualified due to one or few of the difficulties their scoreboard should not be deleted on maps that didn't change in the mapset during the time the mapset is disqualified.
I should also add that there should be an option for the qats to have two types of disqualifications, the one that disqualifies a map for a flaw on the actual map and therefore would make the scores deleted on that map. And a disqualification for metadatab change that would save the scoreboard of the entire mapset.

MrPotato wrote: 4z405v

Like monstrata mentioned, not all beatmaps change after disqualifications or every map that is included in the mapset does.
As much as the third option is the most ideal option for this poll, I would say there should be a 4th option of making every scoreboard of every map in a mapset to not get deleted as long as the actual map didn't change during the time the mapset got disqualified.
Some diqualifications are not all about the actual map but rather the meta data or just one map out of a full mapset, then, when a mapset gets disqualified due to one or few of the difficulties their scoreboard should not be deleted on maps that didn't change in the mapset during the time the mapset is disqualified.

As much of a popular opinion this is. With the current system, it will never happen. One small change to the map could completely mess up scores, replays or other things. How do you know the mapper didn't move one object slightly before it got requalified? It isn't worth it. It's better to wipe the scores to avoid any possible problems down the line when relating to scores/replays.

I would rather have partial disqualifications, where only the diffs that caused the DQ would get score wiped as they're expected to be changed, and metadata/bg "disqualifications" would never happen, if it's something that requires the mapper's intervention just put it in a locked qualified state without wiping any score.
I get that this isn't possible with the current beatmap submission system, but I feel like this poll is solving a non-problem, instead of focusing on (some of the) WHY people hate disqualifications so much:
- A disqualification and subsequent score wipe can happen on a diff you haven't even played, on a gamemode you don't even know exists.
- Maps that give pp nomod/HR have a high star difficulty and are usually pretty long = more diffs, longer diffs = more possible points of failure = more disqualifications = Asymmetry.
- Metadata and BG disqualifications are universally considered bullshit. See: MANIERA, rip jhlee's 1234pp score.

Qualified maps should have scoreboards and give pp.

Lanturn wrote: 6t6w4t

MrPotato wrote: 4z405v

Like monstrata mentioned, not all beatmaps change after disqualifications or every map that is included in the mapset does.
As much as the third option is the most ideal option for this poll, I would say there should be a 4th option of making every scoreboard of every map in a mapset to not get deleted as long as the actual map didn't change during the time the mapset got disqualified.
Some diqualifications are not all about the actual map but rather the meta data or just one map out of a full mapset, then, when a mapset gets disqualified due to one or few of the difficulties their scoreboard should not be deleted on maps that didn't change in the mapset during the time the mapset is disqualified.

As much of a popular opinion this is. With the current system, it will never happen. One small change to the map could completely mess up scores, replays or other things. How do you know the mapper didn't move one object slightly before it got requalified? It isn't worth it. It's better to wipe the scores to avoid any possible problems down the line when relating to scores/replays.

if maps are changed during the disqualification period the specific maps that changed would be needed to be updated, with the current system if a map is not changed in a mapset at all you would not need to update it in order to play its ranked version.
Also every minor change in .osu files is noticed.

Tbh, I don't see why metadata issues require a disqualification to fix. Can the staff not fix such issues internally? Because it literally takes the mapper like all of 30 seconds to make metadata changes and re the map... Can't little things like this be done without the need to DQ?

monstrata wrote: 5t5v6z

Tbh, I don't see why metadata issues require a disqualification to fix. Can the staff not fix such issues internally? Because it literally takes the mapper like all of 30 seconds to make metadata changes and re the map... Can't little things like this be done without the need to DQ?

when osz2 comes.

I would want the scoreboards to be at least kept onto the qualified maps. But don't calculate pp until the map finally gets ranked.

^^
Hope it appears!

I think that if scores don't get ed at all like maps that aren't ranked would eliminate all this drama since people who play those maps would only provide constructive criticism instead of creating a scene after losing performance points due to disqualification.

How will not rewarding pp right away stop any drama at all? If the map is dequalified, the scores set are still lost.

Graf wrote: 5r6y26

There should be a clearer indication in-game if the map is qualified or ranked imo.

This

DRRR wrote: 2y1862

How will not rewarding pp right away stop any drama at all? If the map is dequalified, the scores set are still lost.

I don't think the majority of people see a decent score as something valuable on it's own; rather, the PP it awards. By delaying PP rewards, nobody gets any PP, so nobody has PP to lose if the map gets disqualified.

I think people just get annoyed because their arbitrary number measuring performance has gone down

3rd looks the best.

DRRR wrote: 2y1862

How will not rewarding pp right away stop any drama at all? If the map is dequalified, the scores set are still lost.

When people aren't capable enough to take some seconds to understand what Qualified means then there is no reason to whine about the "loss" of a single score.

Some have already said it, but I think the issue is more the visability of the ranked status than anything else.

For most maps you don't know when they will be fully ranked or if they already are unless you check on the website and to do that for 10+ maps everyday can be a hassle. I think the only thing that needs to be changed is the icon for qualified maps. Instead of a heart make it a star, a triangle or something like that.

EDIT: Or even better, make the symbol the number of days that map has already been in qualified status.

The solely reason why people don't like doing awesome scores on qualified maps is because they could lose a huge amount of pp in the process in case of DQ, so... there goes my vote on the 3rd option.

Wafu wrote: t2q5t

I agree it either should be removed completely or there should be the warning, like: "7 days remaining till permanent qualification" or something, which would count like that.

I think this is a good point. I there was once a warning for the old approved beatmaps saying 'this will not be counted on your ranked score' or something.

Providing in-game for players will be something most s will agree.

That's a good idea
I also like Allsiss's idea, about the symbol indicating how long it has to go
Perhaps a nuclear Heart counting down, and when time's up, it's ranked (and the nuke goes away) (idk)

Xilver wrote: 464f1a

3rd option seems very much ideal and a nice compromise.

I have to agree with you on that and like the other guy said there should also be a clearer indication if it's qualified or ranked.

Graf wrote: 5r6y26

There should be a clearer indication in-game if the map is qualified or ranked imo.

Yup.

3rd option and maybe have a message that pops up at the start of playing a qualified map telling you that its qualified and that you wont receive pp until the map is ranked, kinda like the message about deleting backgrounds make osu angggryyyyyyyyyy! use background dim instead thing, that way it should be blatantly clear that you wont get pp and that its qualified, whist still allowing for people to see neat scores that top players make

Sonnyc wrote: 586w5g

Wafu wrote: t2q5t

I agree it either should be removed completely or there should be the warning, like: "7 days remaining till permanent qualification" or something, which would count like that.

I think this is a good point. I there was once a warning for the old approved beatmaps saying 'this will not be counted on your ranked score' or something.

Providing in-game for players will be something most s will agree.

+1
Removing pp from qualified maps and adding this is, in my opinion, the best way to go about doing this.

Almost of noob player is love Qualified map because of easier get first place than ranked map

Map rank is show about player's skill so good player must be the high rank, so i think it is just self-conplacency to take 1st in qualified map

I think it doesn't need

"Keep them but don't reward performance points until ranked"

Seems like the best option for everyone. Let's us keep an eye on the scores for fun and challange, but won't be rewarded until it's confirmed it's going to be ranked, which is cool.

I like to tackle qualified maps for the challenge/ replays watched as opposed to the pp rewarded, so I think I'll agree with the third option. It would be a shame to see leaderboards disappear entirely

Last options sound nice for me, I don't care how much pp I get and it's can calculate later after 7 days imo.

I personally find that watching the replays of qualified maps is useful for the mapper in the case the map does get disqualified.

Pretty sure Lanturn mentioned this earlier, but I'd rather go with a completely different tactic. Players can continue to compete and earn pp while in qualified, but their scores and pp gains are wiped upon ranked. This will allow people to test their playing abilities (and the beatmap, provide if needed too), see how the map will affect their overall pp, and avoid heartbreak when a map is disqualified since they were going to lose the pp anyway. It fits the whole "cutting edge" motif qualified beatmaps have. In multiple alpha/beta tests, most of the time you don't carry your work into the finished product (mmos with their character data, for example).

Of course, players that don't already mind losing their scores will play in qualified maps (those that should be) so they won't complain/cause a drama. Those that do mind, however, will stay away and wait the process out (or give the beatmap a try). We'll definitely need some sort of qualified indicator ingame if this were to happen though.

If we can't do the above, then it is the third option for me

I'm not sure about that
Okay, Qualified comes with a risk, but there should also be a reward (score stays if map is good enough)

Edit: Wow, already 1200+ votes O.o

Ranked maps have a heart.

Approved maps have a flame.

Qualified maps have a racing flag.

baraatje123 wrote: 3ad45

I'm not sure about that
Okay, Qualified comes with a risk, but there should also be a reward (score stays if map is good enough)

Edit: Wow, already 1200+ votes O.o

Why? Where in the qualified listing states that playing these beatmaps should give you a reward? It says it clearly in black and white, the qualified section is for people who don't mind their scores getting lost (although in this instance it would be all scores), those who want to play cutting edge beatmaps before they are released to the masses, and those that want to help keep beatmap quality top-notch (which not a lot of people seem to be doing for some reason...). With what I wrote, we change the angle of the qualified section entirely - those that want to help with beatmap quality can and those that don't mind losing scores can still play on a scoreboard + see how the pp gain affects their overall pp.

Well
I meant it in the way: Why should players be "punished" (losing score) when the map es the 7-days and thus is of high-quality
I know, it's a risk, but players shouldn't be "punished" IMO
Here I mean Not "Punished" as rewarded (probably wrong word choice tho ;w;)

baraatje123 wrote: 3ad45

Well
I meant it in the way: Why should players be "punished" (losing score) when the map es the 7-days and thus is of high-quality
I know, it's a risk, but players shouldn't be "punished" IMO
Here I mean Not "Punished" as rewarded (probably wrong word choice tho ;w;)

They aren't being punished for something they should be willing to lose in the first place. Playing for pp should not be on the forefront of a qualified player's mind. If we want people to evaluate qualified beatmaps closer and have a qualified section as it is supposed to be, we need to rethink how scoring/pp gains work in the section entirely. I think what I posted solves that issue pretty well.

I don't see how keeping Qualified scoreboards but not rewarding performance points until ranked will do anything positive. If the map gets ranked, the score is kept and so the pp is "kept"as well, you just don't get it until it's ranked. If the map gets unranked you lose the score, and so you "lose" the pp.

I can see people complaining about "Losing their amazing scores", might as well remove scoreboards to avoid these kind of conflicts with the players.

To the people complaining about losing your plays, please press f2 at the score screen.

As for the scores, it's stated that:

"During this week, there is a high chance they will return to pending if an issue is found.
If they return to pending, scores will be wiped."

To appeal to these people that say that they didn't read it, that's your problem and not peppy or any of the osu!staff's problems, but I suppose peppy could somehow work in a warning when you start up any qualified map. Possibly from banchobot?

peppy wrote: 115z70

jesus1412 wrote: 4s456t

I feel like dumb fucks will complain double about "not getting pp from X map" if the pp is removed.

I completely agree.

Triple that. Didn't consider this possibility when voting.

Also, in regards to the 3rd option (sorry if this has been asked before, I can't really read through everything now), "Keep them but don't reward performance points until ranked" this means that if the map gets ranked, the scores are kept and just then the points are being given, right?

This category is recommended for people who:

1. Want to play cutting-edge maps.
2. Want to help keep map quality top-notch!
3. Don't mind having scores removed occasionally

don't give pp on qualified maps please
especially for pp farmer they are can see pp worth before this map gets ranked
give pp after map gets ranked (if map didnt dq'ed).

add only score on top50 so we can see something there

I think the maps should appear in top scores, but be grayed out, and the score not counted in player performance. That way people could tell how much a map gave, but wouldn't feel like it was taken from them.

Second: I think the md5 hash should only be of the hitobject data and difficulty data, not of the song title and artist name, etc. that way DQ's from incorrect information (Maneria for example) would not wipe scores, but changes in the map or difficulty would wipe scores, as they should.

mappers dont listen to what people who play a qualified map have to say, you'll get a nice "you shouldve modded it before it was qualified" if you do.
picking the third option would not only have no effect on the amount of drama. but, as jesus said, it would also cause a lot of confusion.

my vote goes to yes

Lust wrote: 1m4p6q

Pretty sure Lanturn mentioned this earlier, but I'd rather go with a completely different tactic. Players can continue to compete and earn pp while in qualified, but their scores and pp gains are wiped. This will allow people to test their playing abilities (and the beatmap, provide if needed too), see how the map will affect their overall pp, and avoid heartbreak when a map is disqualified since they were going to lose the pp anyway. It fits the whole "cutting edge" motif qualified beatmaps have. In multiple alpha/beta tests, most of the time you don't carry your work into the finished product (mmos with their character data, for example).

Of course, players that don't already mind losing their scores will play in qualified maps (those that should be) so they won't complain/cause a drama. Those that do mind, however, will stay away and wait the process out (or give the beatmap a try). We'll definitely need some sort of qualified indicator ingame if this were to happen though.

If we can't do the above, then it is the third option for me

i actually like this idea (and the reasoning behind it) a lot.

My opinion:

Qualified maps should not give PP

• Reason: See MANIERA drama. The leaderboards literally got fucked up due to it's disqualify and requalify.

There must be a message in red on the qualified listing saying, "YOU WILL NOT GET PP FROM THESE MAPS"

• Reason:

  jesus1412 wrote: 4s456t

  I feel like dumb fucks will complain double about "not getting pp from X map" if the pp is removed.

Qualified maps should be clearly indicated as "Latest QUALIFIED version".

• Reason: Better indication in-game

Qualified maps should allow score listing:

• Reason: More incentive to play the map, thus more . It's also fun trying to beat other scores in DT mania while the scores are low.

What I wonder is what would happen if the scoreboard is there but the map gives no pp for qualification, and then the map gets permaranked? Would those scores just give them the pp? Will they have to reset the scores?

Third option is fine. Just give a big notification on the map so people will be less likely to complain.

i would prefer to have an icon for qualified status, else i am also pleased with the third option (no pp till ranked status)

The problem is that knowing that a record is deleted to update the score and express dissatisfaction.

I really really cant understand that

Now that I think about it the 3rd option wouldn't change much, it's a step in the right direction but generally you can guess what sort of pp you will get from a play, so people will just complain about losing the pp they would have got, instead of the pp they already got. I think lust's suggestion is great, playing a qualified map gives no permanent pp, that way at least if people are gonna complain they will complain about the system rather that the QATs and the bs ranking criteria(but that's a much bigger discussion and this isn't the time and place to go into it)

tbh I feel like the qualified maps are fine the way they are. Keeping the scoreboard but giving no pp isn't really doing anything really. Your score is still there if you fc a really hard map you are still going to get a pp rain for that score and if it dqs you will lose everything regardless. Your pp is just being held but its still there lol.

I think so, for no one will be upset, because there are no selected pp C:

Neutral wrote: 746x

tbh I feel like the qualified maps are fine the way they are. Keeping the scoreboard but giving no pp isn't really doing anything really. Your score is still there if you fc a really hard map you are still going to get a pp rain for that score and if it dqs you will lose everything regardless. Your pp is just being held but its still there lol.

Always nicer to log back in and see that you've gained some ranks then logging in and see that you've lost that many ranks

LoupDuQc wrote: 3f2e67

Neutral wrote: 746x

tbh I feel like the qualified maps are fine the way they are. Keeping the scoreboard but giving no pp isn't really doing anything really. Your score is still there if you fc a really hard map you are still going to get a pp rain for that score and if it dqs you will lose everything regardless. Your pp is just being held but its still there lol.

Always nicer to log back in and see that you've gained some ranks then logging in and see that you've lost that many ranks

I guess it is a mental thing. I've never really minded losing ranks to dqs. I actually enjoy dqs tbh, usually means a map is on it's way to getting better.

getting no pp until ranked is still useless for me though because i think players play qualified maps so they get an advantage for pp and qualified maps without the pp/scoreboard part for me doesn't differentiate it from pending that much.

I do not know what kind of "advantage" that might be. It is not like you gain more pp the quicker you are. You gain the exact same amount of pp, regardless of when you make the play. The pp is only dependant on how good you play on the present map, not when you did it and who else played the map. These are variables not even influencing the pp gain a single bit.

I'm still not seeing how not rewarding pp helps, people will still lose their scores, still be mad and people will be confused about not gaining pp.

IMO it's black or white, keep the ranking charts or remove them. I am far more inclined to shout out and mod a map after qualification because I may possibly play it to set a competitive score. The best way to spot issues with a map is to attempt in numerous times, I will not try to set scores on a map without a scoreboard.

So from my perspective: Remove scoreboards - fine but qualified becomes disassociated with players, don't expect to see their views of a map unless their an active modder.

Keep scoreboards, remove pp until rank: Expect just as much bitching about DQ' and more confusion about pp.

Keep scoreboards: We're where we are today. This is my preference.

jesus1412 wrote: 4s456t

I'm still not seeing how not rewarding pp helps, people will still lose their scores, still be mad and people will be confused about not gaining pp.

IMO it's black or white, keep the ranking charts or remove them. I am far more inclined to shout out and mod a map after qualification because I may possibly play it to set a competitive score. The best way to spot issues with a map is to attempt in numerous times, I will not try to set scores on a map without a scoreboard.

So from my perspective: Remove scoreboards - fine but qualified becomes disassociated with players, don't expect to see their views of a map unless their an active modder.

Keep scoreboards, remove pp until rank: Expect just as much bitching about DQ' and more confusion about pp.

Keep scoreboards: We're where we are today. This is my preference.

I think my suggestion on the previous page is a good middle-ground for this.

I would rather like to see an ingame warning like "This beatmap is currently qualified. If it gets disqualified, all scores will be wiped." or something else to make it easier to identify Qualified Beatmaps in song select.

And wiping all scores when it got ranked would increase the drama/complaints in my point of view. More scores getting wiped == more players will be affected by losing pp which results in more drama/complaints.

Although not rewarding pp essentially makes no difference, getting no pp temporarily still makes me feel better than gaining lots of pp and suddenly losing them all.
But anyway, as many people mentioned above, since qualified maps are different from ranked ones, it is necessary to use a different icon for qualified maps.

jesus1412 wrote: 4s456t

Keep scoreboards, remove pp until rank: Expect just as much bitching about DQ' and more confusion about pp.

Keep scoreboards: We're where we are today. This is my preference.

Just saying : i am that guy who spends as much time playing qualified maps as ranked maps and never really cared about pp in general.

Also, when a mapset got DQed because of let's say only some issues in the easy diff, i hope that there'll be a way to 'reapply' my scores that i got last time for the other diffs that remain unchanged when the map gets requalified. If that's not possible then it's fine i guess.

DanSparce wrote: 1d3k5y

getting no pp until ranked is still useless for me though because i think players play qualified maps so they get an advantage for pp and qualified maps without the pp/scoreboard part for me doesn't differentiate it from pending that much.

There's no advantage to playing qualified maps. I honestly think it's because many players are impatient. When they see a qualified map that gives a shit ton of pp, they don't want to wait a week to get that pp score, despite the cons of playing qualified maps.

the 3rd one is so far the best

in my opinion just add bubble, qualify and disqualify icon to the actual game,making it easier to know which one is qualified and which one isnt

ayy lemao

AncuL wrote: 6p6k1r

in my opinion just add bubble, qualify and disqualify icon to the actual game,making it easier to know which one is qualified and which one isnt

This. I will mail you my unborn child in exchange for this.

I cant understand... Why qualified maps get scoreboards?
Why should a be play? idk

Scoreboards are fine.

PP should not be rewarded for only "QUALIFIED" maps.

AncuL wrote: 6p6k1r

the 3rd one is so far the best

in my opinion just add bubble, qualify and disqualify icon to the actual game,making it easier to know which one is qualified and which one isnt

That way I know which maps to avoid playing.

I think Lust's suggestion is by far the best option.

peppy wrote: 115z70

but after several months of testing, the only result of having scoreboards on these maps is huge drama and complaints from players who lose their scores when a map is disqualified.

This is 4 month late. There is no any huge drama from players about their scores lately, maybe just 1 random post saying "oh I lost my fc", can't say this is drama, everyone is aware about qualified section already. Why you should change something that just started to work properly?

AncuL wrote: 6p6k1r

the 3rd one is so far the best

in my opinion just add bubble, qualify and disqualify icon to the actual game,making it easier to know which one is qualified and which one isnt

t/247673

I love the mentality of if it gives no pp ill avoid the map... the whole idea of the qualified section is that a larger mass of people play it and give on the map lol.

I don't even care whether it gives pp or not

Yeah. I completely agree

imo, don't give pp before Ranked,
and Qualified status changes to Ranked,
then give pp for qualified records.

imo, Dont give pp before rank, and remove scoreboard. But keep rank achieved and/or acc and/or misses or something like that for reference to past plays.

The fact that maps are qualified instead of ranked should be shown clearly in-game (unless it is shown there already and I'm just missing it?)

But yeah, no PP unless they rank seems to be the best option.

p/4450590

It happened

Graf wrote: 5r6y26

There should be a clearer indication in-game if the map is qualified or ranked imo.

Naty540 wrote: 3t2059

:roll:

Graf wrote: 5r6y26

There should be a clearer indication in-game if the map is qualified or ranked imo.

There is. See the cutting-edge release.

Well, the least voted option was the one that ppy is using right now.

Thanks Obama.

Mercurial wrote: 6n5l4c

Well, the least voted option was the one that ppy is using right now.
Thanks Obama.

What are you talking about? The scoreboards are still there, granted they are reset upon rank.

The most voted option in the poll was the one used.

Abraker
The notice appears in all builds
Not only CE

Baraatje123 wrote: 6x113w

Abraker
The notice appears in all builds
Not only CE

Naty540's post made me think it doesn't. I've been on Beta and CE for the past month, so I don't know what's on stable anymore.

The same day it came on CE
Well, I played 1 day later so it might've been later though

abraker wrote: 6w3t1z

Mercurial wrote: 6n5l4c

Well, the least voted option was the one that ppy is using right now.
Thanks Obama.

What are you talking about? The scoreboards are still there, granted they are reset upon rank.

OzzyOzrock wrote: 4u3m5d

The most voted option in the poll was the one used.

Mercurial is right: abraker proved it. Because the scores are reset after the map being ranked, the scores are by definition, being removed. Therefore, the least voted option is the one that was chosen.

This doesn't bother me, I was one of that 12%. :p

Yet they still have rankings
If you looked at the whole thread. You'll see Lust added a 4th suggestion, which is what happened
It never appeared in the poll though
You are both wrong, as the suggestion which became true wasn't in the poll