Why do we have to respect mods and their work?

Also, don't just say because of the Golden Rule.

DISCLAIMER: This thread is not intended to start up any rebellions.

Just like what Tae said, why on earth would you not respect someone who is voluntarily doing a job in their own time to help you people? They spend out of their free time just to fucking babysit you people and making sure that things kept working.

But of course, a spoiled brat like you wouldn't understand.

Allmynamestaken wrote: d6k4l

Just like what Tae said, why on earth would you not respect someone who is voluntarily doing a job in their own time to help you people? They spend out of their free time just to fucking babysit you people and making sure that things kept working.

But of course, a spoiled brat like you wouldn't understand.

QFT
ty bb

---

EDIT

Whether it's #osu or the forums, for example, they're there to make sure you're not being fucking stupid, and to keep everything in order, so everything is more pleasant for everyone. Do you not think this deserves some respect for voluntarily doing this?

Or... if not respect, then not deliberately making their jobs harder by being even more stupid.

if i would stop being stupid i'd understand

but im not smart

why would we have to not respect them

kai99 wrote: 212g2z

why would we have to not respect them

Why is this thread exist?

levesterz wrote: 313j4f

Why is this thread exist?

Bcus Enetro feels the need to be fucking dumb

Now I know this sounds stupid, but:

I came back for just this one bit to reveal... this image

KupcaH wrote: 2f3b2x

kai99 wrote: 212g2z

why would we have to not respect them

oh shit i failed on my mission already

You sure love putting disclaimers in your OPs don't you.

enetro is latin for stupidity

exile autism

because OT exists and must be contained before its cancer spreads to the entirety of osu

ptar124 wrote: 4w6r2b

because OT exists and must be contained before its cancer spreads to the entirety of osu

Nah too late.

that being said hi im kai and i like your ava

hi i dont like yours

oh

kai99 wrote: 212g2z

why would we have to not respect them

to be or not 2b?

2b mapping, u know the thing with 2b stuff, with multiple clicks and ... haha funny no?

You guys try and force your "common sense" on others too forcefully smh

Now I know this sounds stupid, but:

you already know that this question sounds stupid so why even ask?

DJ Enetro wrote: 1t3h

Why do we have to respect mods and their work?

why not? you still haven't stated your reason.

You guys try and force your "common sense" on others too forcefully smh

you already said force once, guy. what is your common sense, then? you can't even prove them wrong.

My common sense is not to assume that your likes and ideals are best for everyone. Simple as that.
Also, you guys have called me out on my Satires. Isn't that constructive criticism no it's not lmao
But why can I not say my opinion however the fuck I want to

DJ Enetro wrote: 1t3h

My common sense is not to assume that your likes and ideals are best for everyone. Simple as that.

And you that with...?
It's just nothing rn

DJ Enetro wrote: 1t3h

Also, you guys have called me out on my Satires. Isn't that constructive criticism no it's not lmao

Your what now?

DJ Enetro wrote: 1t3h

But why can I not say my opinion however the fuck I want to

But you haven't given your opinion. You've said we shouldn't, but WHY?

Allmynamestaken wrote: d6k4l

Just like what Tae said, why on earth would you not respect someone who is voluntarily doing a job in their own time to help you people? They spend out of their free time just to fucking babysit you people and making sure that things kept working.

But of course, a spoiled brat like you wouldn't understand.

Why on earth would I respect someone like that more than my own position in this community?
I'm voluntarily reading threads, posting and contributing to the communitiy. I spend my freetime to fucking make this place be alive but of course a spoiled brat like you wouldn't understand.
No deserves more respect than he earns himself through his actions and behaviour. The evaluation of these is to perform on each individual and there is nothing wrong with different results.

My common sense is not to assume that your likes and ideals are best for everyone. Simple as that.

that's like saying that the golden rule is not the best thing for you. don't be expected to receive it then.

Also, you guys have called me out on my Satires. Isn't that constructive criticism no it's not lmao

i don't even know what you're trying to say here

But why can I not say my opinion however the fuck I want to

oh yeah you are entitled to your opinion but people are also free to tell you that your opinion is shit; so far they have given more reasons than you have (not a very high bar, since you haven't provided any). i mean, you did open a thread about it, thus enticing discussion. were you expecting everybody to agree with you?

Endaris wrote: 2c1i17

Why on earth would I respect someone like that more than my own position in this community?
I'm voluntarily reading threads, posting and contributing to the communitiy. I spend my freetime to fucking make this place be alive but of course a spoiled brat like you wouldn't understand.

And how exactly are you stopping people going wild? If anything you're just encouraging it
That's a bs comparison and you know it.

Why on earth would I respect someone like that more than my own position in this community?

nobody said to give mods more respect than yourself, though. that's just you assuming. then again, it seems like that's what you do all the time anyway. the question was "why should we respect mods", not "why should we respect mods more than ourselves". the answer should be pretty clear.

I'm voluntarily reading threads, posting and contributing to the communitiy

oh fuck off

I spend my freetime to fucking make this place be alive

jesus christ

Given my past experience as a on a decently crowded board (about as much as this osu!forums) I can definitely tell you that there is not much to being a mod.
You're not a mod because you're fit for it but because you got someone with power to trust you with power. This is in no relation to your actual position within the community, your personality and your overall contributions as a person. A title does not earn respect and all it gives you is the possibility of performing rather boring istrative tasks related to forum functionality like moving threads or locking necros. Anything beyond that is completely unrelated to being a .

Endaris wrote: 2c1i17

You're not a mod because you're fit for it but because you got someone with power to trust you with power.

That's not universal in the slightest. I've been a on various boards in the past, and they're all based on applications, as to why you would be suited for it.
I doubt that is how it would work here either.

Endaris wrote: 2c1i17

A title does not earn respect and all it gives you is the possibility of performing rather boring istrative tasks related to forum functionality like moving threads or locking necros. Anything beyond that is completely unrelated to being a .

And as I've said before, you don't go out making their job harder on purpose, do you now?
You don't intentionally be a dick, do you?

good for you, lad. you still deserve respect for doing the shit job nobody wants to do. you may not want it, but you definitely deserve it. however, the situation here is a bit different since the last designated OT mod went inactive and all the mods who decided (out of their own will) to take care of this place also do other things than locking shitposting threads and necros. they're handling much more important things than OT and to have people cause more trouble because they think it's funny is not only a big waste of time, but quite disrespectful towards their position.

A title does not earn respect and all it gives you is the possibility of performing rather boring istrative tasks related to forum functionality like moving threads or locking necros. Anything beyond that is completely unrelated to being a .

even though you worked hard to deserve that title? you demand respect for spending your free time being a , which requires no stress whatsoever, but here you are, saying that mods don't deserve any for doing boring, shitty work.

my point here is, everyone deserves respect on the same level. some mods deserve more respect depending on their experiences and history, just like you said. but you're the one who jumped in claiming that this thread was about giving more respect when in reality OP was talking about giving NONE

That has nothing to do with being a mod. It does not need a mod to tell a dick that he's not welcome if he breaks the community's rules.
Communities have their own ways of telling people they should fuck off.

Also, to validate my first statement: Pawsu, obviously a perfect fit for a mod was not considered as a mod because there was no need for mods at a certain time and there was no incentive to trust her with power. Meanwhile there are other people on the GMT (like 1 or 2 people, don't know most of them) that I wouldn't call fitting but they have been trusted with power and they're not doing shit with it on an istrative level. I don't respect them as persons.

tl;dr
Respecting the rules is unrelated to respecting s. It helps if the s are respectable but it is in no way a requirement.

Oh yeah, my first answer was supposed to be a half-ironic reply to Allmynameistaken because I found his answer disgustingly stupid.
Idk how one would have taken that as an agreement with Enetro.

Also about the "none wants to do this"-thing: You sure have an idea how many people got ditched when GMT-applications opened? Personally I even volunteered specifically to take care of forum instead of chat mostly (like Brian) and pointed out how some sectons of the forum are literally unmoderated but looks like I can't be trusted with power 8)

Also, to validate my first statement: Pawsu, obviously a perfect fit for a mod was not considered as a mod because there was no need for mods at a certain time and there was no incentive to trust her with power. Meanwhile there are other people on the GMT (like 1 or 2 people, don't know most of them) that I wouldn't call fitting but they have been trusted with power and they're not doing shit with it on an istrative level. I don't respect them as persons.

that's your opinion. unless you present solid evidence that those two other mods are not fitting then i call that bias.

That has nothing to do with being a mod. It does not need a mod to tell a dick that he's not welcome if he breaks the community's rules.
Communities have their own ways of telling people they should fuck off.

but it gets a mod to forcibly remove that dick, since the has no power to do that. all they can do is tell others to follow the rules, but what can he do if that asshole decides not to listen to him? mods are able to do things that are not within our power and we should give them some respect for doing the shit job nobody wants to do.

if we don't respect them, how do we expect them to respect us back? very basic thought right there.

You sure have an idea how many people got ditched when GMT-applications opened? Personally I even volunteered specifically to take care of forum instead of chat mostly (like Brian) and pointed out how some sectons of the forum are literally unmoderated but looks like I can't be trusted with power 8)

doing a sneaky double post, aren't you? i'm sorry it didn't work out for you, but there's no need to be such a sour butt about it. i don't know why they haven't chosen you, and i'm sure they have their reason why they wouldn't trust you with their power. but this is unrelated. that doesn't mean mods deserve less respect just because you or other people didn't manage to be GMT

Endaris wrote: 2c1i17

Given my past experience as a on a decently crowded board (about as much as this osu!forums) I can definitely tell you that there is not much to being a mod.
You're not a mod because you're fit for it but because you got someone with power to trust you with power. This is in no relation to your actual position within the community, your personality and your overall contributions as a person. A title does not earn respect and all it gives you is the possibility of performing rather boring istrative tasks related to forum functionality like moving threads or locking necros. Anything beyond that is completely unrelated to being a .

You see, I completely agree with you in regards to the mod earning his own reputation. I don't, however, agree with you saying that there isn't much to being a proper mod. Yeah, a guy with power gave you power, we can see that first hand here with Stefan and other infantile mods, BUT if you do your job correctly you're going to have a tougher time. Of course you aren't going to do much if you sit around and lock 1 thread every 15 years while massaging your scrotum.

@Fox

good for you, lad. you still deserve respect for doing the shit job nobody wants to do.

There's plenty of people who want to have that job, what are you on about?

they're handling much more important things than OT and to have people cause more trouble because they think it's funny is not only a big waste of time, but quite disrespectful towards their position.

Those people asked for the position, got the position and are responsible for their own reputation within the community. If they do a shit job at it, they earn their own reputation based on it.
That's why mods who did a decent job aren't disrespected in the same manner these new ones are.

even though you worked hard to deserve that title? you demand respect for spending your free time being a , which requires no stress whatsoever, but here you are, saying that mods don't deserve any for doing boring, shitty work.

Point is null and void because of the first line up there being wrong, but is even more so because mods here are absolutely sad examples of "hard work". On other forums I'd agree with you on that point, but not here.

If we don't respect them they did something inherently wrong. I don't have an opinion on most mods, meaning that I'm going to approach them with some standard respect (as for pretty much any person I don't know) until they do something that makes me lose it.
Then again, it's the mismatch between respecting the rules and respecting s. If I respect the rules I'm not going to start to break the law just to troll that stupid idiot that incidently happens to have privileges.

And on the mods that are not fitting. Well, I'm not going to blackmail by name, you can do 1+1 here but there is a certain NL mod that consistently came over to #german to casually talk in english there and wouldn't stop in spite of several people asking him to either try and communicate in german (he has german at school and understands half of the stuff written in the channel so this is actually a sensible request).
Add the following situation:
200k player asks in german in #help how to improve faster, I check his profile and tell him (also in german) to play less big bleck and more easier maps because he has sub90% weighted accuracy and over 300 playcount on big bleck and airman. 200k guy becomes vocal and starts insulting me because i'm giving trash advice. That mod comes in and calls me out.
I'm like "okay, if the mod doesn't want me to in this channel, i'm gonna leave, but i know for sure that HE is not going to answer noob questions"

Endaris wrote: 2c1i17

Oh yeah, my first answer was supposed to be a half-ironic reply to Allmynameistaken because I found his answer disgustingly stupid.
Idk how one would have taken that as an agreement with Enetro.

Also about the "none wants to do this"-thing: You sure have an idea how many people got ditched when GMT-applications opened? Personally I even volunteered specifically to take care of forum instead of chat mostly (like Brian) and pointed out how some sectons of the forum are literally unmoderated but looks like I can't be trusted with power 8)

with your attitude in your past few posts (OT or not) it's pretty obvious as to why you weren't trusted!

something like 85% of the GMT apps ended in denial. we have pretty strict criteria for people ing the team regardless of what you might think

one of the biggest red flags you can have for a is them mentioning their 'tenure' on another site and community like it means something. big news shitdick: your experience moderating other forums means fuckall for osu! or whatever other community you're trying to get power on. it's completely unverifiable, barely applicable to the point in question and at worst, an attempt to ingratiate yourself to the person reading the application based on what you've done somewhere else

if anything, it makes me wonder why you stopped there, or if you're already a mod somewhere else, why aren't you giving them all of your attention instead?

people hawk on and on and on about 'power' or whatever but always forget that this 'power' is prefaced with the immense responsibility of keeping things fun for everyone else and having to not turn a blind eye to the shittiest parts of humanity on a daily basis. people mod generally because they want to help out, power doesn't even cross their minds for the most part.

There's plenty of people who want to have that job, what are you on about?

they want it because it sounds fun, but they don't realize that being a good mod is not fun, no matter which board. of course the idea sounds attractive, but do they actually want it? and even if they do, they can't guarantee doing a good job.

Those people asked for the position, got the position and are responsible for their own reputation within the community. If they do a shit job at it, they earn their own reputation based on it.
That's why mods who did a decent job aren't disrespected in the same manner these new ones are.

true, but that doesn't mean mods should be given no respect from the getgo, like OP was suggesting.

Point is null and void because of the first line up there being wrong, but is even more so because mods here are absolutely sad examples of "hard work". On other forums I'd agree with you on that point, but not here.

and that's because the mods that we have right now didn't apply with the idea of taking care of OT. give them some lax. they didn't know how OT works (i don't know if they do now), but then again there was nobody else was here to moderate this place. imagine if there was no Stefan or Flanster locking all those bad threads. they did their best to weed out the worst, and they have failed at times to do so. don't forget that they're human too. i used to be mad at them, but now i'm just sad that they have to deal with such childish kids. i'm sure they did their hard work in other sections of the forum though.

If we don't respect them they did something inherently wrong. I don't have an opinion on most mods, meaning that I'm going to approach them with some standard respect (as for pretty much any person I don't know) until they do something that makes me lose it.
Then again, it's the mismatch between respecting the rules and respecting s. If I respect the rules I'm not going to start to break the law just to troll that stupid idiot that incidently happens to have privileges.

when i said "if you expect mods to respect you, then respect them back", it also counted vice versa. if the mods go out of their way to disrespect the s, then they shouldn't expect respect. my point was that mods deserve BASIC respect just like any other human being. some mods deserve less, and some mods deserve more, and it all depends on what they have done and if they're trying to repent themselves. no need to spit towards their way if they're trying to fix what they have wronged, either.

And on the mods that are not fitting. Well, I'm not going to blackmail by name, you can do 1+1 here but there is a certain NL mod that consistently came over to #german to casually talk in english there and wouldn't stop in spite of several people asking him to either try and communicate in german (he has german at school and understands half of the stuff written in the channel so this is actually a sensible request).
Add the following situation:
200k player asks in german in #help how to improve faster, I check his profile and tell him (also in german) to play less big bleck and more easier maps because he has sub90% weighted accuracy and over 300 playcount on big bleck and airman. 200k guy becomes vocal and starts insulting me because i'm giving trash advice. That mod comes in and calls me out.
I'm like "okay, if the mod doesn't want me to in this channel, i'm gonna leave, but i know for sure that HE is not going to answer noob questions"

then you should report them instead of gossiping about it, mmhh? i mean, if you have the evidence, then you might as well do it.

I should've been accepted as GMT

also you are all retarded

they want it because it sounds fun, but they don't realize that being a good mod is not fun, no matter which board. of course the idea sounds attractive, but do they actually want it? and even if they do, they can't guarantee doing a good job.

That still doesn't change the fact that many people want the job, which clashes with your initial statement that barely anyone applies for the position.

true, but that doesn't mean mods should be given no respect from the getgo, like OP was suggesting.

Oh, no, I was just responding to your lines. Enetro is a fucking dickwad so I don't really take him seriously. Your statements are the point of our discussion here.

and that's because the mods that we have right now didn't apply with the idea of taking care of OT. give them some lax. they didn't know how OT works (i don't know if they do now), but then again there was nobody else was here to moderate this place. imagine if there was no Stefan or Flanster locking all those bad threads. they did their best to weed out the worst, and they have failed at times to do so. don't forget that they're human too. i used to be mad at them, but now i'm just sad that they have to deal with such childish kids. i'm sure they did their hard work in other sections of the forum though.

Well, we should blame whoever is responsible for hiring mods, then. I'm not going to start respecting people like Stefan for reasons that go beyond his moderation skills, but I'm not going to blame him in this situation IF he indeed didn't apply for modding OT. Instead, I'm going to put that argument towards his superiors who don't give a shit about proper moderation of this place.

as far as respect goes: nobody "deserves" your respect. this does not however make your respect a commodity that people must be aware of attaining, because in reality, who gives a fuck about what you think?

Oh god, Eph, I'm not surprised about the denial. I got more lose in my behaviour here in osu! and I simply applied to make an offer. I also didn't try to make myself appear as the best person in my application because I know that's not gonna help you at all.
It was the same for the other forum I moderated, I already mentioned in my app for that one that I would probably drop out at month X to focus on the begin of university.

I'm also very aware that people don't become mods because they seek power. There is a reason why I would usually think of mods as people who know more about the stuff at hand than the average guy and being approachable and ive in general. You can't really deny the ive part of my activity within the community either so please don't think I'm not aware of that.
I'm arguing from the power/rules/respect standpoint in this conversation because I truly think that titles don't matter and should never ever be a reason to behave differently in front of a certain person than usual.

even though you worked hard to deserve that title?

^important part of that sentence

now I'm cringing at the fact that I even tried applying to GMT lmfao

Ephemeral wrote: 6y2w72

if anything, it makes me wonder why you stopped there, or if you're already a mod somewhere else, why aren't you giving them all of your attention instead?

I do give a lot of attention to the places I do moderate, but still, thanks for slapping some sense into me to not think about power. Reminds me of the time when someone spam p***/music ads into that place. I and another mod took care of that in like a few minutes.

Endaris wrote: 2c1i17

Personally I even volunteered specifically to take care of forum instead of chat mostly (like Brian) and pointed out how some sectons of the forum are literally unmoderated but looks like I can't be trusted with power 8)

but with that, yeah Endaris does have a point. There are WAY too many unmoderated places in osu, especially language-specific channels/subforums like how there are literally no Thai s and someone named jameyou001 wreaked havoc in irc for dozens of times last year. We reported him, guess what, you can't read Thai, so didn't do anything. New players were driven away and regulars(like me) failed miserably to chase him away with counter-trolling without the help of a mod. #thai stayed like that for months, either deserted or full of real cancer (not the joking kind of cancer like OT) until people slowly came back.

I don't want power, I want to help, and if this happens again, I will really lose respect for s.

Ephemeral wrote: 6y2w72

as far as respect goes: nobody "deserves" your respect. this does not however make your respect a commodity that people must be aware of attaining, because in reality, who gives a fuck about what you think?

No one is really obliged to give a fuck about anyone or anything - we're not discussing the tangibility someone's respect here, but you are right about respect not being a commodity mods should strive to obtain like some kind of currency. We're discussing what the consequences are of being a shit mod vs being a good mod.

That still doesn't change the fact that many people want the job, which clashes with your initial statement that barely anyone applies for the position.

then let me rephrase that since i obviously didn't clarify myself enough. when i said that nobody wanted to do that shit job, i meant that nobody wants to do what mods actually do. when people think of OT mods, they usually think of somebody who just fucks around with the rest of them. i'm not saying that they're not allowed to have fun, but they mustn't forget about the clerical work. makes sense?

Well, we should blame whoever is responsible for hiring mods, then. I'm not going to start respecting people like Stefan for reasons that go beyond his moderation skills, but I'm not going to blame him in this situation IF he indeed didn't apply for modding OT. Instead, I'm going to put that argument towards his superiors who don't give a shit about proper moderation of this place.

i guess it makes sense for you not to respect the mods here since you mostly frequent this forum, and they have done a bad job at moderating it. i don't like how they treated this place, but i've seen Flanster modding the #osu chat and i think he does a good job at it, whereas Stefan seems pretty respectable in the modding community.

Oh, no, I was just responding to your lines. Enetro is a fucking dickwad so I don't really take him seriously. Your statements are the point of our discussion here.

sorry, i usually try to follow the OP in discussion threads no matter where the conversation leads.

then let me rephrase that since i obviously didn't clarify myself enough. when i said that nobody wanted to do that shit job, i meant that nobody wants to do what mods actually do. when people think of OT mods, they usually think of somebody who just fucks around with the rest of them. i'm not saying that they're not allowed to have fun, but they mustn't forget about the clerical work. makes sense?

Absolutely. I like when you clarify your points, even though you don't have to.

i guess it makes sense for you not to respect the mods here since you mostly frequent this forum, and they have done a bad job at moderating it. i don't like how they treated this place, but i've seen Flanster modding the #osu chat and i think he does a good job at it, whereas Stefan seems pretty respectable in the modding community.

If they are respected within their community, power to them, I suppose. Every person reaps what they sow.

sorry, i usually try to follow the OP in discussion threads no matter where the conversation leads.

My apologies, then.

The mildly fun thing is how there is more than 1 BAT-member that got sentenced to a lifetime in jail later on.
It is of utmost importance to notice that the deciding factor for istrative positions (not only in osu!) is not qualification but being in the correct place at the correct time. That is how these people became BAT- in the first place or how Ephemeral became Lord Farquaad.
In a parallel university I might have not dropped osu! after my initial installation to return after 5 years and I'd be a famoose GMT/mapper/whatever now because staff wasn't crowded with cool, german-speaking people yet, causing the entrance requirements to be lower (not to mention that I was a lot more concerned about appearing as impolite or stupid back then).

Endaris wrote: 2c1i17

In a parallel university

http://parallel-university.org/

Oh god that typo xD

Alight, let's go over some generalised statements in this thread:

"Moderating is a shit job"

No, not really. If that were the case, then 75% of people wouldn't want to do it. I have no experience with higher istrative levels, but moderating a simple forums like OT is not difficult at all. People like to mod because they like to move up in the "power hierarchy" so to speak, but because they view it that way, it's why most people aren't good mods.

"golden rule"

The golden rule is to treat others as you want to be treated. Not respect everyone regardless. I don't expect to be treated with respect if I'm doing a shit job at something, rather I'd expect other people to call me out on my behaviour so I can change it.


Regarding my experiences with mods, I've never found any mods, besides one or two like Brian that I like. I tend to find that the job of moderating attracts a certain type of person, and that person doesn't treating modding like a responsibility - which it is - but rather treats is like being "the boss", and this really is a cancerous attitude. As I've stated before, moderating, for the most part, isn't a difficult job. However what is very important above all that the develops the right philosophy for moderating. Since we've been talking about Biblical concepts, let my bring out another one:

"But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves." -Luke 22:26

And from my experience, most s cannot do the simply task of doing an objective evaluation of how to moderate to most benefit the community without inserting their ego. That is as it is, I don't respect most mods, and I hold them to a higher standard than I do for most people.

It's definitely not as black and white as you make it out to be, Birdman.

The respect mods get from moderating comes from more than just doing a good job, but it is in a way tied to it.
To explain, you stated that only a certain type of people are fit to rule, which is completely correct, however, you have not explained correctly WHAT makes the right type of person. The right guy is the guy who has experience, charisma and the proper personality to do the job. Someone who can act with authority without squashing the ones below him with his delusions of grandeur.
With the right type of person comes the right amount of respect, automatically.

Eph said how respect is not something that anyone should look to attain like some form of currency, but it IS a fairly good indicator of how good you fit into the professional environment, regardless of the position.

With that being said, my original point was that you shouldn't rule out the "being a boss" as some kind of negative, because a healthy amount of authority is most definitely needed to rule the rats and people alike.